Official Luthiers Forum!

Obviously some guys can do both well, but is it a realistic goal in terms of time spent on getting really good at them and in terms of business practice.

...ie you don't want a mediocre guitar with expert inlay and vice versa - but also if you're a one man or small operation can you justify the time spent on the inlay as additional cost - plus does that mean you build guitars 50% or less of the time and do inlay the rest or is it better do either 100% Surely a small, maybe one man, operation wants to be banging out guitars not making a couple of museum pieces a year that have no market as he's not got a name yet?

..not necessarily fantastically clear set of questions there but hope you can wade through to the point!

Thanks.

I think so, some people are just good craftsmen and can turn their hand to anything quickly. They just got IT if you know what I mean, things come to them quickly and easily, they think well, learn fast and never accept second best.

Cheers

Kim

I'll take a crack at this, Jim. I haven't gotten established yet at building, still on my first scratch build, but I can apply the same logic from the cabinetmaking industry.

Specialization and outsourcing in that industry in becoming the standard. Take cabinet doors for instance. All the shops know how to make them. But they take special tooling, and time to do it right. It is also one of the most visible pieces of the finished product, not unlike inlay. Many small shops have found it far more economically efficient to outsource the doors, and even dovetail drawers, on all but the simplest jobs. From a business viewpoint, it makes sense. Outsourced doors and drawers can be done less expensively, and with a much greater variety available to the end consumer, than the small shop can do all by his onesy...

I would love to learn to do inlay the way that Craig Lavin does it, or some of the other sponsors on this forum, but I am keenly aware of my limitations, both as a craftsman and with the time I have for building guitars right now. I still want some of the beautiful stuff inlaid on my guitars that I see on some of the stuff in their galleries, and i know that I will outsource that to them when the time is right. Same applies to finishing - with Joe White and Tony L producing the quality finishes they are doing, I don't need to invest in a spray booth to spray polyester finishes...not that I don't want to, but it doesn't make economical sense to me.

_________________
Mitch

Jim buddy I think that it depends entirely on where your interest is.

For me I have very little interest in inlay so it's easy for me to say that I would not be keen to spending time creating inlays. My interest is in building guitars so that is what I spend my time doing.

There are some great inlay artists here on the OLF like Craig and Paul and I would contact them if I had a project requiring inlay.

Historically fine inlaying was a skill developed by cabinet and furniture makers. It was a sign of proficiency in woodworking. It was really not till late last century, early this century that it became common to consider inlay a craft of its own. But like all things there were exceptions to this statement but in general the development of marquetry and inlay came from cabinet and furnishing tradesmen. So to answer your question, Yes certainly one can become expertly proficient in Lutherie and inlay.

Do what you love. If you have dedication and the interest, that is what you should do. With work and patience, so much is possible. Look at people like Grit Laskin or Judy Threet. Their guitars are unique and highly sought after. A lot of the same artistry and hand skills that go into luthery go into inlay. In my lifetime, how many guitars am I going to build? Dozens? Hundreds? I'd be surprised if I make 50. But I am going to pour my soul into those guitars. They hopefully will be around a lot longer than I ever will. Perhaps my great grandchildren will play them or at least admire them. I like inlay, and feels that it adds to my art. It is what I envision my guitars as ideally having. They become unique to me and my personality. If someone isn't into inlay, that is part of their personality, and their guitars should reflect that. Hand crafting guitars can be a tremendous work of self expression.

Jim, there are a number of very fine builders on this forum that are proficient at both. Check out some of Kevin Gallagher’s work in the archives.

I think if you have the skills to build a nice guitar you also have the skills to do inlay work to some level of proficiency. I'd dabbled in inlay a fair bit and am learning that it is as much a practiced skill as an inate one. Each one gets better with more practice. A lesson Craig Lavin taught me is the key is getting a good drawing to work from. I am working on a bust of young child just now….I am now on my 4th attempt at a drawing and still not happy with the results.

I met Grit Laskin about a year ago and he told me that he was not very good at drawing when he started...but learned through practice and determination.

I love doing inlay work as much as building guitars. Though if I were building as a revenue generator, I'd seriously consider out sourcing my inlay work.

Search the archives for Kevin Gallagher's Africa guitar. This is a fine example of excellent luthier skills, as well as excellent inlay skills. I still drool every time I see it.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

I think anyone with skills and visual ability can learn to do good inlay work. A lack of visual and artistic skill however will show up more apparently in that inlay work than perhaps the instrument in general, so, makers should be honest with themselves about their strengths.
As far as profitability, it is pretty hard to beat the price/quality of out-sources such as Custom Pearl (Dave Nichols).
If you want to become known as an "inlay artist", you have to perform your own work and develop a distinctive style.
Personally, I do not favor any type of representational art work on guitars, though I realize that I'm in a minority on that issue, I would say still that I consider inlay to be a specialty existing quite apart from that of guitar making.

I'd say that the skills can certainly be acquired, from a personal standpoint, as we've seen many great builders who are also good inlay artists. That said, from a business standpoint a complex inlay is an awful lot of hours that would really cut into your profits unless you're already charging big bucks for your guitars.

Another view is that you don't want to go half-way. I've seen some absolutely masterful (and very expensive) guitars, beautiful in every way, with some truly third-rate inlay work done by the luthiers that built them. It's like a new Porsche with a 6" circle of rust right on the hood. Don't go to 1/64" precision with your woodworking and then leave 3/32" of fill all around your inlays! So, in short, if you're going to do it yourself then do it right.

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Thanks guys - reasoned and thoughtful responses as ever. I've just finished my first build and see inlay as a logical step forward however while I'm getting better at guitar making how much do I devote myself to inlay or finishing come to that? But if I outsource it all what am I providing myself (apart from added expenditure). What if I outsource my neck joints and bracing too? OK - ridiculous but you get the point. If I'm gonna do it I want to do it right (same as everything else). But how long have I got to learn? - These are just rhetorical questions really, my main priority is getting good at building - you guys have covered all the angles that I can see. Thanks.

Just so Dave Rector can drool all over his keyboard (and the rest of us too).

This is Kevin Gallagher's fine fine inlay work. Now maybe it's because he's built well over 600 guitars by now that he has this kind of skill or maybe that he's just very gifted with tallent (a bit of both I think), but yes one can be very very good at both skills.



I love that guitar, inlay and what it represents to those kids in Africa. Kevin, did you ever get it sold? You're such a fine human being dude

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Dang it Rod! Now I have to clean the drool off my keyboard again.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars