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side bending?
http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16129		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  edlee74 [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  side bending?
Hi guys. Is there any side bending jig plans out there and if so where can you find em' at? Those Fox Universal jigs look like they are pretty nice but not nice enough for $500. Thanks.
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Hi,

I believe that LMI sells the plans for the Fox Bender as well. I would recommend you invest in a heat blanket, which is also available from some of OLF sponsors.

Regards,
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
edlee74 wrote:
Hi guys. Is there any side bending jig plans out there and if so where can you find em' at? Those Fox Universal jigs look like they are pretty nice but not nice enough for $500. Thanks.


First I would not buy a pre built one from LMI but only because of their price is beatable. Check with John Hall at Blues Creek guitars for a much better deal.

That said you can build one for around $125 or less depending on the quality of press screws you use. That includes a set of forms or two. I will tell you if you are going to be building regular and don't want to spend the time to build one The money spent on one from Blues Creek is not thrown a way. This tool will be used on every guitar you build It pays off pretty quick.
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
You don't need to go to the full Fox style bender, the press part is something of a luxury, doing a lot then OK, but I have built 30 or so using my hand benders, I build each one (you need one for each body shape) for about £10 ($20).

I have never felt the need to go to anything more complicated, as this has always done the job for me.

Attachment:
FE19 bending form 2.jpg


Attachment:
FE19 Bending form 3.jpg


Attachment:
Bender.JPG




Colin
Author:  edlee74 [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Thanks guys for the information.
Author:  JimWomack [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Colin, I'm pretty much in your camp regarding benders. But I've been using eyebolts and turnbuckles to screw down the cauls. It's really a pain to get everything tightened down evenly. Your method using slotted cauls and long bolts with wingnuts looks like a much better way to do it. I'm going to be changing out my hardware the first chance I get! Thanks for the pics.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
There's always the Doolin style bender to make too. Here's a picture of mine and a link to my introduction thread. I thought there was a link in there to Mike Doolin's website with detailed instructions to make the bender but it wasn't there so I've added it here.

Cost is low as well but not as ecconomical as Colin's.

What I like about the Doolin bender is that both slats are held tight during the entire bend. This is the only bender with this feature as far as I know and what this does is support the wood on both sides during the entire bend, this really cuts down on the potential for cracking sides.
Before this I had a fox style (not as good as John's that's for sure) and I broke 3 sets of side before deciding to make this one. You'll see in the link that my first bend on it was curly maple, a hard wood to bend because of all the hard figure grains.

Just another option for you.

Image
Author:  edlee74 [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Thanks Rod for the information you provided as well as Colin. These photos sure are handy and I believe that will get me where I need to be.
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
edlee74
If you decide to build one, use Baltic Birch ply. It's more expensive and hard to find but is much better for jigs than regular ply.
Author:  Rob Warren [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
I made my bender for my first and only to date, using springs on the upper and lower bout cauls. Worked like a charm for me. And I second the heating blanket. I also made the form and base two pieces. The cauls are mounted on the base, so in the future, I'll only need to make new forms for different body shapes.
Author:  Sylvan [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
http://www.wellsguitars.com/Articles/BendingMachineRevised.html
Author:  ecklesweb [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Rich S wrote:
If you decide to build one, use Baltic Birch ply. It's more expensive and hard to find but is much better for jigs than regular ply.


I've always found it curious that people use baltic ply for jigs. It's certainly great to work with, void free, nice surface. But as you point out, it's expensive - and usually (IMHO) way overkill for most jigs. I use the cheapest bloody stuff I can find, assuming I don't already have a suitable scrap (of anything) laying around. My jigs aren't pretty, but I'm able to spend the extra money on project materials. Just the other night I used the flat side of an old piece of beadboard and cut up an old pine shelf to make a bridge slotting jig.

Jay
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
ecklesweb wrote:
Rich S wrote:
If you decide to build one, use Baltic Birch ply. It's more expensive and hard to find but is much better for jigs than regular ply.


I've always found it curious that people use baltic ply for jigs. It's certainly great to work with, void free, nice surface. But as you point out, it's expensive - and usually (IMHO) way overkill for most jigs. I use the cheapest bloody stuff I can find, assuming I don't already have a suitable scrap (of anything) laying around. My jigs aren't pretty, but I'm able to spend the extra money on project materials. Just the other night I used the flat side of an old piece of beadboard and cut up an old pine shelf to make a bridge slotting jig.

Jay

Ten years ago I would have suggested using the standard $39 ¾” birch ply. Recently though the ply quality has gone way down. It was never perfectly flat but now it’s gotten much worse. I just bought some ply from home depot and it is delaminating. If I am investing my time into something I plan to use for many years, I want it to be good from the start.
The only reason I suggested Baltic Birch is that it is nice to work with and makes the process of building more enjoyable. Isn’t the entire process of building a guitar important?
Author:  ecklesweb [ Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Points well taken. I might just need to try to get over my view of jig building as a necessary evil and think about it more as (potentially) enjoyable work.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
I also use Birch plywood for all my jigs. Even though it's true that most cheap plywoods wood work just fine, the feel and look of a jig made from birch is way more appealing. That may sound 'anal' a bit, but all my customer that visited my shop were all impressed with my jigs and I beleive it makes a difference in the perception my customer have of my work. They feel more secure they'll get a well build guitar after seeing well built jigs.
Author:  Dave Higham [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
In the prototype/design workshop I worked in 20 years ago in England we were already using birch faced ply because birch through and through was getting very expensive and had to be ordered specially.
For my next instrument I'm making an outside mold and bending former so I bought an 8' x 4' sheet of 3/4" 'okoumé' or whatever. It's pretty crappy stuff but it will do the job. It cost me $120.00. That's a lot to pay for a hobby builder on a pension.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
in regards to fixture and mold making the real advantage to Baltic Birch ply is that Baltic Birch is seldom use in less that AB grade which will mean less voids than in most played. Therefore less chip outs when cutting and a more stable product. you could build with MDF as well and seal the cuts form moisture absorption.
Author:  Mike_P [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Rich S wrote:
Ten years ago I would have suggested using the standard $39 ¾” birch ply. Recently though the ply quality has gone way down. It was never perfectly flat but now it’s gotten much worse. I just bought some ply from home depot and it is delaminating. If I am investing my time into something I plan to use for many years, I want it to be good from the start.
The only reason I suggested Baltic Birch is that it is nice to work with and makes the process of building more enjoyable. Isn’t the entire process of building a guitar important?


you might have been buying China birch, which besides being in general a crap product is also full of some nasty stuff that will be flashing off in your presence (i.e. it will still be 'wet' when you get it home and as it dries it will not only warp but give off those chemicals)...if you can verify that the product you are getting is NOT made in China your chances for getting a good piece go up dramatically....oh, and Hell Depot is the last place I would buy any plywood I intended to use for anything 'real'...
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
Mike_P wrote:
Rich S wrote:
Ten years ago I would have suggested using the standard $39 ¾” birch ply. Recently though the ply quality has gone way down. It was never perfectly flat but now it’s gotten much worse. I just bought some ply from home depot and it is delaminating. If I am investing my time into something I plan to use for many years, I want it to be good from the start.
The only reason I suggested Baltic Birch is that it is nice to work with and makes the process of building more enjoyable. Isn’t the entire process of building a guitar important?


you might have been buying China birch, which besides being in general a crap product is also full of some nasty stuff that will be flashing off in your presence (i.e. it will still be 'wet' when you get it home and as it dries it will not only warp but give off those chemicals)...if you can verify that the product you are getting is NOT made in China your chances for getting a good piece go up dramatically....oh, and Hell Depot is the last place I would buy any plywood I intended to use for anything 'real'...



My local building supply is not open on Sundays…Home Depot is, so I bought the crap and that will be the last time I do.
A friend of mine clued me into one of Home Depot tactics. They are buying copper fittings from the manufacture before the manufacture does any QC. This way the manufacture can reduce the cost and can pass the savings off to home depot. HD is banking on the consumer not to go through the trouble of returning a bad fitting. I am sure that they are employing this tactic on other products too.

I'll do some research into the origins of the home depot ply.

I have to remind myself of the old adage “you get what you pay for”
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: side bending?
OK…Time to try to put this thread back on track.
Here are some pictures of the side bending machines that I use.
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IMG_0630 (Large).JPG
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IMG_0636 (Large).JPG
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