Thanks Colin for the detail!
John, is the long drill bit just for visual alignment? Again, I feel really dense.
![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad")
Thanks for the help.
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| Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? http://mowrystrings.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=15954 |
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| Author: | D Stewart [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
For those who use a butt joint for the neck with the threaded inserts, I've got a couple of questions. I am switching from a MT with the barrel nuts and bolts. What is the neck block like? Do you drill holes before gluing the block in? Counter bore for the washers/bolt head and hide with label? Do you make a jig to get the holes lined up for the inserts and the block? It seems to be a better way to go, just working on the details. A photo or two would be great. Thanks. Donovan |
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| Author: | KenH [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
I use a mahogany neck block that I make myself. I drill the holes after the guitar is completed. The only hting you see from the inside of the guitar is the head of the bolt, which has a hex head socket. It is very unobtrusive and doesnt cause any problems. I made a lexan jig that I use to drill the holes. I hang it on the end of the neck to act as a pattern to drill the hole for the threaded sleeve, and hang it ont he body of the guitar to drill the hole for the bolt. There is a scribed line to center the jig correctly...(hard to see in the pic). Attachment: jig1.jpg Attachment: jig2.jpg Attachment: jig3.jpg I have been thinking that I would add apiece of copper or brass tubing, glued in at a perfect 90 degrees, to make sure that the holes are all in line with each other and square...probably not a bad idea. One thing to make sure you do is to drill the holes in the neck prior to putting the fingerboard on or lese the jig wont work. Hope this helps! |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
Donovan, I use the type block/heel arrangement you mention. However, unlike Ken's approach, I drill the holes and counterbores into the block before the back/top go on. I.e., the block is glued to the sides, the linings are in, then while I can still fit that unit over the drill press, I drill the holes. My thinking was to keep them perpendicular to the face of the block. I don't have a neat little jig like Ken, so I end up having to measure. (It's not that hard.) Steve |
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| Author: | D Stewart [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
Thanks guys. I like the idea of the drilling jig that works for the body and the neck (before the fretboard) Makes perfect sense to me. Any trouble with chip-out inside on the block when drilling from the outside? I thought that it wouldn't be that hard to just measure, but the jig seems like even I couldn't mess it up. I appreciate the feedback. Donovan |
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| Author: | KenH [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
I use a 1/4" forstener bit to do the drilling, and go slow. In the event there is some chip out, I dont worry about it because the head of the bolt is about 1/2" in diameter anyway...maybe larger. This will cover up any chipout there may be. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
I make and drill the block before gluing it in .. then simply drill thru the sides using the block as a guide. I have changed dovetails into bolt ons as well on other guitars after the fact .... drill the bolt holes first (after plugging the female dovetail), and then using a modded spade bit (simply grind the top end of the spade sharp) so that you can drill the countersink from the outside (put the bit into the hole from the inside, then chuck the drill on fom the outside). This way I can put a label over the holes and bolts - looks cleaner IMO. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
As many will know I use a butt joint, no mortise, but with the fingerboard glued to a neck extension which sits in a pocket in the top, but is not bolted down. I build the box without drilling the block for the bolts as I like to make sure that everything is lined up before drilling the holes. It's not unknown for me to glue the block in off centre! Attachment: neck finished.jpg Attachment: Cherry block.jpg When the box is close and bound I carefully mark the box on the centre line at the right centres and drill out the holes using a 7mm forstner bit (this is for 6mm bolts) I then use these bolt holes to take my router jig for cutting the pocket for the neck extension. Attachment: Neck pocket jig.JPG Then, I get my beautiful assistant, aka the Boss, to hold the neck in place while I use a punch through the holes in the block to mark the position of the inserts in the neck. It should then all fit together like this, Attachment: fitted neck.jpg I consider that drilling these holes is all part of neck fitting and should be done at that time. Colin |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
Nice system, Colin. Elegant solution! Steve |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
That really is an elegant system Colin. I, like you, do not trust myself to always glue that end block exactly where it should be. I drill the holes after the box is made up. I do use a long bit, about 20 inches long to drill that hole and just line it up by sight. Since the bit is so long that part is not hard. One difference however, is that I am using a mortise and tenon neck joint but that is just a minor detail. John |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
I use a long bit as well John, but only about 10" long, but that does allow me to be as accurate as needed. I also as I said use a 7mm bit for 6mm bolts so that gives a bit of wiggle room. Colin |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
I drill the holes for the bolts in the guitar after it is closed and bound too. I use a "drill guide" which is nothing more than a simple block of hardwood with the appropriate holes drilled on the drill press and I shaped it shaped so it will register off the guitar top. Nothing fancy and it won't last forever, but it does seem too keep the holes nice and perpendicular. To make it more permanent I could get some drill bushings I guess. |
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| Author: | D Stewart [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
Thanks Colin for the detail! John, is the long drill bit just for visual alignment? Again, I feel really dense. Thanks for the help. |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
Yes indeed D. The longer the bit the better I am able to see which way its pointing. 
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck block for bolt-on without mortise? |
Slick system Colin. I like your using the bolt holes to anchor the fretboard tenon recess routing jig. I've also gravitated to using a transfer punch through the neck block holes to mark the neck tenon for drilling when fitting the neck. Pretty hard to get them in the wrong place that way. Terry |
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