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buy handmade japanese chisels? use only certified "mineral free" spruce?

I honestly never really cared about this problem before I decided to do 3 guitars at once this year... Probably working through all these braces made me notice it... Because I am paring brace ends and then Groan - push and no cut... Look and the edge is toast...

I wish I had somebody close by I could work with on some of this stuff.. As for now - it requires a pilgrimage...

Chisels wise - most of what I have is cheap hardware store fare with the exception of a brand new Pfeil that is so soft it won't cut...

I sharpen on my Worksharp 3000 and then manually strop with Veritas green.

I do a single bevel at around 27 degrees or whatever the WS3k produces. My chisels are really sharp.

I only strop/buff on carving chisels . regular chisels like aldi get a mirror edge on a 13k ceramic stone. I used to strop my chisels years ago . but found that it rolled the edge over , same with using sandpaper. I want to achieve the sharpest edge possible .May i suggest trev/s soloution on sharpening edge tools

High quality chisel steel - buy used if you don't want to spend LN prices. Even then, you only need a few sizes to do most of luthiery work. Good steel, when it is sharp and well-handled (not abused) will not dull quickly. The last part is to have a setup you can move to and know how to sharpen quickly. All the chisel needs is a touch-up. In my shop, I can touch-up a chisel and back back to my work piece in 45 seconds. It makes a difference. If it takes 5 minutes, the flow of work is interrupted - to me that is a psychological issue as much as anything else.

Andy

So I decided to dig out one of every chisel I own and have a go at end grain Sitka to see if I could figure it out...

I came to 1 conclusion:
All else being the same - The steel and hardness matters. Good chisels that are at the proper hardness have far less trouble than the other ones...

Earth shattering I know....

Woodie
I just acquired a 10” CBN solid 6061 aluminum wheel for my Tormek and spent all day yesterday on sharpening. So far, liking it much better than the original wheel.
Tom

If you're rolling the chisel edge you either have steel that is too soft or you're pushing the edge past it's "time to touch me up" point.

If you think the problem might be the steel temper you could check it with a fine metal file. If you're able to get a file to easily bite into the edge going diagonally across the edge it's probably too soft. Grind about 1/16-1/8" off the edge to try to get back to the factory tempered steel (check with a file) and re-grind a new bevel without heating the tip past it's temper point. A high speed grinder is very fast way to do this but will quickly bring the first few thousands of steel on the edge way past the tempering point so plan to spend time with an extra coarse abrasive by hand after using one to grind off the softened steel before going through the grits to establish your bevel. The 60-grit Norton 3X blue grinding wheels run much cooler and if you dress a crown on the edge it will be safer to use. Joel Moskowitz did an excellent tutorial on this method in Fine Working a while back for more details if interested.

If the file skids across the edge and doesn't bite, soft steel is probably not the problem and you either are not sharp to begin with and/or are pushing too hard to compensate for a worn edge. The second you start to feel like you need to push harder, stop and strop. 3-4 backwards swipes on each side and you're back to work.

truckjohn

how are you measuring the hardness of your chisels??

Ed

Quick and crude...
If A scratches B then A is harder..
If A and B don't scratch eachother - they are about the same...

I did identify 1 chisel which appears to have been burnt during factory polishing.. Grrrr.... It was much harder 1/8" back from the edge... But that's a lot of chisel to grind off... For me - that's probably 10 years of use...

And the too-soft Pfeil got exchanged and it's replacement seems to be very good... The manager at the store said it was the 3rd Pfeil chisel returned in 4 weeks for too soft... He said he hopes they get their act together because it's not good for business for these things to come back...

"I honestly never really cared about this problem before I decided to do 3 guitars at once this year... Probably working through all these braces made me notice it... Because I am paring brace ends and then Groan - push and no cut... Look and the edge is toast... "

I trim brace ends with an oscillating tool. Saves on sharpening.

I have a set of stanley some 2 cherries and some old one
I have a set of Millers falls also
the old globe master tools are now in the scrap heap and only rely on the better tools for luthier. The higher end chisels are well worth the money if you can't get them rockwell tested your scratch test only tells you which is harder than the other not how good or bad they are.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John, I appreciate your feedback, and as usual, your advice is right on...

The one thing that this episode repeats once again is that I need to quit wasting time (and money) on cheap chisels. They are more trouble than good...

I'll bet it's a Milwaukee M12 as that's the only one I know of (which perhaps doesn't say much) that would be lightweight enough to do fine work easily...they don't last me more than a year (went through around 4 of them) so I upgraded to the M18 version...ask me a year from now if that one croaks also.

everyone I know who uses a cordless oscillating tool complains about how they don't last (at least under in the field type of usage) and we all have corded versions that seem to hold up a LOT longer

cheap tools are a cost good tools an investment
you don't need a lot of chisels.
find a good set with 1/4 ( great for nut ) 1/2 and 5/8
that may be all you need.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

It took a long time for me to "get" Chris. Yes, he can be snarky. But that's just him. He doesn't mean it. He cares about this business. I am truly sorry you are dealing with so much. Hope your wife is healing and heading to cure. - Mike

"I'll bet it's a Milwaukee M12 as that's the only one I know of (which perhaps doesn't say much) that would be lightweight enough to do fine work easily."

Actually, it's an Harbor Freight variable speed corded model. It is heavier than many, but the variable (slower) speed helps. With the work stationary on the bench the tool can be guided with two hands.
The Fein multimaster is a nice smooth running tool and if the HF kicks it, I would consider buying even though it costs 5X as much.

I got a new Fein Multimaster at the BORG on clearance/close out for less than the price of a new Dewalt unit... You just gotta watch the sales....

Yes - the HF unit is still probably significantly less $$$... But HF tools and I have a very rocky relationship..

One of the issues than some luthiers can have is trying to use a chisel that is simply too small for the job. Apparently not a problem here.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I hope he's wearing a titanium cup!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I believe he's trimming the miter at the top of the fretboard extension trim on the last of the 42's...and in any case, with his background and disposition, I would be far more worried about damaging the chisel's edge.

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I hope he/s got insurance to cover damages if he slips ?

The optivisor is a nice touch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I suspect that this may have been Mr. Morelli's little joke...the boss just picked up a Barr slick to replace a Witherby that appears to have been lent or lost, to be used for a summer building construction project. I suspect one of them put the other up to it, as the usual tool for the job is one of the many bench chisels available just out of view to the right of the shot (I know...I end up sharpening a lot of them).

_________________
For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

That’s not a chisel; that’s Excalibur. He’s now the rightful sovereign.