Official Luthiers Forum!

The only reason I said anything is that looking back on my first guitar (12 years ago, first of 23 to date) I lucked out and did everything right - it sounds good, the dovetail worked, finish came out fine - it remains my favorite guitar. I'm not crazy about some of the details of my "theme" - I mixed some ideas that didn't work out as well as I thought (or basically, I hadn't thought).

Later guitars have gotten better in their theme, ironically some don't sound as good.

What Haans said about light colored headstocks is very true - the tricks that hide flaws in dark wood seem to highlight them in light. One of the simple things that I like to do is use the same wood for head, fretboard and bridge, or alternately, make the headplate (and sometimes the heel cap) out of a cutoff of the body wood (often the back). Also remember that if you are working with light trim woods that they will absorb stain from pore fillers or if you are trying to match necks to bodies (as Martin does). I often stain necks and frankly have had a ich of a time keeping it from bleeding into light purfling strips and accents.

Anyway, I'm not nagging or trying to influence your design, just telling you that over the last dozen years I've rethought this every time I make a new one.

Carry on

Yeah, inlaying pearl into maple is not easy. I've done it, but it had to be a nearly perfect fit. No room for filler.

Freeman, please, nag away. I see it as constructive criticism and appreciate you making me think about these things. Too often the thinking comes too late.

Haans, for this guitar I'm going to throw a decal on it. Decals show up much better on light colored wood, at least the decals I have do.

Don, I am not married to a bookmatch set but I do like the mirror imaging. I was uncertain how the high figured one-piece veneer would look so I created some samples to see if that would help.







This one has mineral spirits on it:


I'm looking into binding the guitar with curly maple. I'd probably run some of the same for the back stripe. And maybe throw some of the fumed and blonde mahogany in there to tie it all together.

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

Julie—

For what it is worth, that last one is my favorite, assuming you will use maple. The bookmatching of maple looks better on a back, or a drop top on an electric, and not so much on a headplate. Just an opinion. There are no rules that apply here; you should do what you like best.

Yup, what Freeman said what Hans said...
Since this is your first, you get a "pass" , but Freeman is absolutely right that you should think every little detail out before you make your first cut. Even such things as whether to use wood or celluloid for B/W or B/W/B purfling and such things as how are you going to dye, if you are going to dye the instrument or sunburst it. Glues should also be thought out. Personally, I would have never let cyano anywhere within 10' of a top. I always dyed so I took the easy way out and used celluloid as was a habit of old timers like Martin, Gibson, Larsons, Stella, Holzapfel, etc, etc. and some of us lesser known.
How many times have I seen "How do I sand my coco backed box with maple binding?"...

When I was building the OM I knew that I wanted to use cutoffs of the back for the head plate and the rosette. I had done book matched heads before and tried my darnedest to fit two pieces together for this one. I finally decided that a completely asymetrical piece actually looked better so that is what I went with





Coming back to the idea of a theme - the only woods in that guitar are coco for back, sides, head, rosette, heel cao and binding, mahogany for the neck that was stained to match the coco, the cedar top, rosewood bridge and fretboard and the black and beige purfling strips. Since I wanted to use the green abalone for my initials I used it for fretboard diamonds and side dots (even tho it doesn't stand out as well as a lighter colored dot would). Top, back, head and f/b are all bound with coco and one thin beige line - keeping stain out of that line was probably hardest part of the build.

Not saying that is necessarily how it should be done but I sure like the effect more than the 000 that I built 12 years ago.

edit to add, the point I am trying to make is that every bit of that was planned - I bent the binding when I did the sides, I set aside the cutoffs when I braced the back, I was worrying about the stain while I was carving the neck.

Thanks again, guys. I'm going to take my time to try to get this right.

All the good hardwoods I have in stock, I brought down in the move from Chicago. I haven't been able to find anything here like what I was used to getting at Owl Hardwoods back in Chicago, unless I want to pay through the nose. And even then, the selection stinks. Florida is a hardwood desert. I'm treating my good hardwoods as if they were Brazilian rosewood. So every time I take something to the saw, I need to make sure it will be used and not end up in the experimental pile. Lots of reticence going on.

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

It's time to do the binding, something I've never done. Videos, books, online help - none of it matters when you're about to do something that can't be undone. I ran a few practice pieces through and checked the cuts against the binding. Everything looked good.

First run complete


Climb cutting was a bit difficult to control so I opted to counter cut the rest of the way. I only had one chipout.


When I looked at the picture, I gasped! OMG! What have I done!?!?

I may have just destroyed this guitar. I never compared the thickness of the binding to the thickness of the sides.

I've cut away about 75% of the side thickness!

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

The linings will keep things together until the binding and purflings are in place. We mill most wooden binding channels at 0.070", so only 5 to 15 thousandths side remaining, depending on whther we are working in mahogany (0.085 side thickness) or rosewoods (0.075").

That chip-out looks like it will be contained in the top purfling channel, but an easy repair if not, using scrap from the top off-cuts.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I wouldn't worry about it. I regularly cut my ribs for .080" binding and it worked fine.
The depth of the binding looks a little deep though, unless you are using a side purfling.

Three things, Julie:

1. Don't panic. Remember, you have kerfed linings inside the guitar that are taller than the bindings. So, you have not cut away anything that will allow the guitar to fall apart in the short term. Just don't go knocking the guitar around too much until you get the binding on there.

2. I'm with Haans in that the binding ledge does seem to be taller than what most folks use. But, if what you have fits, then all will be fine.

3. For the future, here is a good guide to the best sequence in which to cut binding ledges:

https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_R ... rings.html

I would consider adding purfling of sufficient size to make the chipout disappear. It will fix your problem and made the guitar look nicer in my opinion.

But, if not then just find the cutoff and use a sliver from the same area to make the repair. I would use a white glue and nitrile glove to glue it in. The gloves will keep body oils and dirt out of the mix giving you a much more invisible repair,

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Thanks, guys. I'm calm again.

This whole purfling/binding isn't giving me warm fuzzies. I routed for the purfling and have been playing with different woods and variations but nothing clicks. I looked into flexible purfling but can't justify the price so I'm sticking with wood.



With the binding added, it will look something like this



I'm hoping when it's finished I'll like it more than I do now. If not, I guess it's good practice.

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

Right or wrong, I'm moving forward. I did some reading up on bending curly maple. It seems most believe it to be very hard to bend. I found a few resources that advised using ammonia because it softens the lignin. Soak the wood in ammonia for 30 minutes, wrap it in foil, heat it up, put it in a mold and wait for it to dry.


I took a piece of 3/4" PVC (on the right in the pic above), capped one end, glued a slip/thread coupling on the other and inserted the wood. Filled the tube with ammonia, screwed on a cap and waited 30 minutes. One source used a heat gun to warm the wood up and put it immediately into the mold. Since I don't have a heat gun, I used a bending iron then put it in the mold.

I didn't hear any cracking or feel any resistance. Fingers crossed it turns out okay.

_________________
Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

Jules, when doing binding/purfling cutting, this is your friend...



I would rip the purfling off (well, don't rip it off), and redo after filing. You seem to have a lot of tear out there. Router bit sharp? Going the right directions?
Looking at your photo with the binding clamped on, looks to me like you need to file the spruce that sticks out past the purfling, below it. Must be flush...
Binding and purfling a box is not an easy task.

Haans, I think what you were seeing is hide glue. The purfling went on pretty smooth.

The ammonia method worked pretty well


I did only half of the binding today, just in case. It wasn't perfect but this is my El Kabong guitar.

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

Ahh, yes, I can see that now. Blind as a bat too...
Looks pretty good from a distance.

It always does... Time will tell if it will look good close up...

Well, I learned a good lesson on the top purfling/binding - Make sure all the pieces of wood match the guitar body shape as tightly as possible before gluing. With that in mind, I took the other two pieces (made from veneer) and dipped them in ammonia, then put them with the already shaped curly maple strips into the mold. Once that was mostly set, I took the binding strips to the guitar back and clamped and taped them to sit overnight.

When I took the clamps and tape off this morning, the bindings were pretty tightly formed. Whew!

Now, another crossroad. I could tell you what I did for the tail insert was completely planned out. But I won't. One of the maple strips broke short of center (don't even know how or when it happened) so I had to improvise. The break was beyond the insert wedge but I didn't want end grain to be exposed anyway. So I winged it.

The back stripe will be a strip of maple bordered by fume and blonde mahogany. What I'm trying to figure out is if I should try to make the tail insert look like it wraps around to the back stripe. This is what I have right now:


I'd have to bevel the insert and back stripe perfectly because that will have to be rounded a bit to take off the sharp edge. Is this ever done?

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

Hey, it’s El-Kabong, and this is the cosmetic stuff. I would do whatever gets you to the next stage. With darker binding, you can splice in a short piece and it looks fine. With maple, that won’t work. Just do what makes it look presentable (even if unorthodox) and move on. My $0.02.

When I read that yesterday I realized how seriously I was beginning to take this maiden build. Thank you for reminding me I need to enjoy this and stop stressing.

I had come to the point where art was beginning to be too important. The goal of perfection leading to paralysis. But that all ended when I was sanding the sides to bring the binding flush with the side wood.

Even though I routed the binding channel twice, I still missed this area in the waist.

To add insult to injury, sipo dust is now officially on my toxic list. Though I was wearing a respirator during sanding and had a HEPA air filter running in the room, by the time evening came around I could barely breathe. My lungs were rattling like I had a bronchial infection. Sipo has me so freaked, I sealed the sipo wood on the guitar last night with shellac. I'm looking into a hazmat suit.

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

your innate OCD should be given a pass in this context...

from your posts at SMC, it is fairly obvious you are a highly experienced woodworker and naturally pay attention to the minutiae...

in this case you're dealing with something that is apparently new to you, and is rather difficult too boot...e.g. take the advice of others and get over it for this first acoustic build of yours. you might even go so far as to realize you are getting a chance to learn something new (which as you get more and more experience under your belt gets harder and harder to do) and relish in the challenge of it all. or termed another way, get past this and enjoy what the results are and endeavor to do it better next time.

I guess I've been lucky in my 30+ years of dealing with woods...I've only recently started to show ill effects from Sapele, and have always had issues with Spanish Cedar, but other than that have shown a good resistance to any reactions to woods.

I've always viewed binding a guitar as one of the greatest opportunities for disaster.

But... slow and steady (plus an occasional 'redo') gets it done.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I would redo that side. One of the best binding tricks is to make up a short section of the finished binding/purfling and use it as a guide as you go around the box cutting channels. That and the "safe" files and a piece of wood cut to the shape of the waist with sandpaper glued to it take care of all your needs to ensure everything fits.
It may be your El Kabong (if you must) guitar, but learning to fix mistakes will only improve your work later.
Other things that I'm sure you know are to take plenty of time, not do difficult things at the end of the day when you are tired, and when you make a mistake, don't be in a hurry to fix it. You usually only have one chance to do it right.

I considered the redo but when I went to set everything up I realized my routing jig could have been the problem. It was a bit wobbly. Rather than making matters worse, I dismantled the jig so I wouldn't get tempted at a later time. When I made it I hadn't considered the need for it to be rock solid. Most of the effort went into making something that would rest parallel to the sides and not mar the guitar.

This whole thing was my fault though. I know better than to not check the rout. Working on the router table I'm anal about things like that. For some reason, maybe my aversion to sipo, I just wanted to get it done and move on. And that's not good.

But I did like the way the tail insert turned out!

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Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com

I am like, you, Jules. I do a lot of other woodwork, and guitars are the first time I have had to use a micrometer. Starting with the first one (now on #8) I have taken pretty extensive pictures of what I did. For my next guitar, I always look back and frequently find a way to improve a step - something I have learned from others or thought of on my own - and photograph that for next time. Others may benefit from writing things down or talking into a recorder, but some record of what you did .

I never make the same mistake twice - there are so many new mistakes to make, why waste time.

Ed