Official Luthiers Forum!

First, let me thank all for the help I’ve received for the many questions asked during the build of my three OO - 12 guitars. When I decided to start this project, switching over from building whitewater wooden dories, I had about ten friends say they wanted one. I selected the three most likely to overlook the many mistakes of first editions (one is me ) and thought doing three assembly style would give me the opportunity to try out new techniques and learn from mistakes. Ha, got that right!

Your expertise and generosity has been greatly appreciated.

Headstock veneers - I’m planning the usual veneer on the front to match the fretboard and tie in with the end graft and binding. Ebony or rosewood depending on the guitar. Plus, will have a thin layer of red or green, also part of color scheme. And maybe a thin layer of maple depending on how I like the way it looks when I fab it up.

What are the thoughts on a veneer overlay on the back? There’s no scarf joint to hide, at least the way I built them it only shows on the face. It only adds about 2-3mm to thickness so no problem to slightly further thin the mahogany but at some point does it start to look a little “too much”. Maybe too much of a “sandwich” look from the sides?

Thanks again, Jon

What’s the situation on the back of the headstock? Is there a volute of any type?

If there is no volute and not joint to hide I would skip it on these first few, but I’m lazy so…


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Because of the way wood grain runs an unspliced (1 piece) neck is more likely to require reinforcement than a spliced one.
I always use a ~ 2mm back veneer, spliced or one piece neck, not for decoration, but for strength.

As long as it's in keeping with the general look or style of the guitar, fine.
I normally do one like this (not mine) and it can be kept quite plain - I've used a mahogany backstrap on a mahogany neck for a client who didn't want a backstrap - never even noticed.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

No volute. Headstock will be thicknessed from the back before adding veneer, if any, maybe w/ a combo of band saw and oscillating sander with a buttress jig. Or maybe a Safe T Planer.

Edit from first post. There is a scarf joint, but it only shows on the front face, which will be covered by front veneers.

Colin's point about strength is a good one. My first thought was that it's the first few builds and putting a veneer on a neck with a volute can be tricky, so to reduce complexity I would skip it. If the transition is a plain transition with no volute a veneer would make sense for the reasons Colin mentioned and shouldn't add any real complexity when it comes to glue up. Also, if you have an easy way to thickness from the back then taking the veneer back off if it goes poorly shouldn't be an issue.

I'm firmly in the camp of - first few builds should be simple. That being said my first build had a back veneer so.. .

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Ha! Did it on my first few too as they were archtops which seem to thrive on bling. I've only ever done them for appearance as most of my necks are laminated. Not overly tough to do but maybe too much bling in some cases.

First post -
Make your mind up why don't you

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Yeah I could have worded that better. . Edited first post. Should know better than to do this at work!

A back strap of that sort is not necessary if you have a face veneer, but it does add a bit of security if the back of the head gets hit for any reason. I usually use one a couple of mm thick, and run it up onto the back of the neck. This can be a nice look if the neck is a sandwich with different colored veneers in the center. Some old banjos would have the back strap run up as far as the 5th fret, and with the 'V' neck profile it tapers down and more or less flows into the center stripe.

I do a lot of back of peghead veneers, both on banjos and guitars. I like the look, and as Alan said, it adds some strength to an inherently weak spot.

Dave

Thanks Alan. My concern is by adding another layer, considering the ones going on the face, the ramps will become too gaudy. I’m trying to find some pics of this, so far without success. Otherwise I’ll need to completely build one up and test to see how it looks.

If the scarph joint falls on the "chin" area of the peghead (as is often done on classical guitars) which makes it less obvious I would not bother with a back strap veneer. The scarph joined peghead is supposed to be stronger than a one piece neck, few of which have veneer on the back of the peghead.

I have seen a few scarf joined heads that have failed at the glue line, leaving the head held on only by the face veneer. It's not common, but it happens.

I have the ramp only go down to the center of the head, not all the way to the back edge. There's no need to go any lower, since the strings don't, and you don't have the exposed veneer that way. I like to imagine it makes that area of the head a little stronger.

DT,

Took a couple pics of a current slot head in progress right now with 3 layer top veneer and single back veneer (back strap) and dug up some pics of my first guitar from about 15 years ago with similar veneers and a hand stop volute in stead of a backstrap.

You really can't see all the veneers thru the slots (ramps) that much but you can from the side of the neck.

Anyway, hope these help. It is hard to find pictures of features you may want from angles that help make decisions.

The one on the bench right now with backstrap (sorry tuners not yet installed):





Older guitar with hand stop:

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

Thanks Brian! Pics are very helpful. I’ve struck out on finding ones on the web with back veneer. Also, this reinforces Alan’s point how the ramp doesn’t involve the back veneer. It seems intuitive now, and obvious, once seen. Doh.

Such a great forum.

That looks really nice, Brian!


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You could just do veneers. Not much help in the strength departement, but can be done so it's not too blingy.

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

You can run a backstrap piece as far as you want down the back of the neck. Easiest to do when the neck is still a square blank. Then as you carve the curved profile it will naturally taper into a dart shape down the middle. This is similar to how a snooker/billiards/pool cue is made.


Here is one with a three piece neck blank and then a backstrap of the same timber as the centre slice of the neck. You can carve it so they blend in together. This is just rough carved and sanded with 60 grit - but you can start to get the idea.