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I've got a 2005 Martin D-15 in the shop for a rattling truss rod. Tensioning the rod has done nothing. I've fixed dozens of Cordoba guitars with this issue by injecting a catalysed silicone caulk into the truss rod channel through a hole under the second fret. On the Martin, I'm not able to hit the space between the two truss rod elements. my drill bit keeps hitting metal. (I'm angling in from a hole about 1/4" from the edge of the fingerboard as I did on the Cordobas.) Have any of you had success with this technique on this era of Martins? Is there something else I should be trying? The customer is not the original owner. I can always pull off the fingerboard, but I'd rather not if I don't have to.

Hi Eric - I hope John Hall weighs in here because this is a difficult one not in the repair sense but in the what to do because of the value of this instrument and the nature of the repair sense.

More specifically if the fret board needs to come off and the rod replaced, and it may... this level of repair may approach the value of the instrument if the repair is done comprehensively with finish touch-up etc. and by a professional like you who charges appropriately for their work.

I know you said it's out of warranty and that's good to know. If it was still under warranty this may be a candidate for a new neck covered under warranty. These are the single bolt bolt-ons with a glued mortice and tenon so neck removal is easy and with a little luck it may have broken its glue joint already leaving just the fret board extension.

I'd be interested to see what our pal John (Hall) has to say on this one it's right in the sweet spot of value that a neck replacement may be more appropriate than open heart surgery.

Might be a candidate for searching for a D-15 with a messed up body just for the neck.

Would it make sense to pull the nut and drill a hole at an angle to hit the rod at about the second fret?

Intuitive response (i.e. no experience): How about pulling off a fret and drilling small holes along the fret slot till the right spot gets found?

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Peter Havriluk

Can anyone give me a link to a cross-section of the rod Martin would have been using on a D-15 in 2005? Maybe if I knew what is inside, I'd have better luck. Even a description of the rod would be helpful. I rarely work on steel-strings. The double acting rods I've dealt with had a square rod on top of a round rod. I'm guessing this is different.

John Hall would be my goto here for what you are asking for. He will know what they used on these and maybe have a pic.

We've done Martin warranty work (and repairs) for a very long time and I cannot remember a single Martin truss rod failure that we had to chase like this. That's part of the reason why some of us are not more helpful, you are in new territory for us too.

I have had something like this a few times. this is the era of the switch to the 2 way rod (2006). I found the tuners were loose in each of the times I had this. Also check the tenon screw.
to ID what rod you have , its easy . It the nut is far up into the block area you have a 2 way , if it is right behind the tranverse brace a 1 way.

so check your tuners first. if that is still wacky then you have to call me. I would also check the bolt behind the neck block cover.
lastly if it isn't my last resort would be to pull out 2 dots on center and wick in thin tite bond.
you can also access the truss rod slot at the nut .

checked my books martin switched to the 2 way in 2006 so you have the 1 way. the channel in this is alum. There should be a filler on top of the rod. The 1 way rod , Martin would bend that down a they glued in the tenon, you may have a loose screw in there. It is odd you get a truss rod rattle once tighened so check this and let us know. you can call me

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John is it possible to get a Martin neck replacement it's not under warranty so it would be a purchase? Thanks too I knew you would know

yes but they charge outrageous prices. I may have one that will work last neck I priced was over 1500
I have a stratabond neck that will fit and I have all the parts to make one

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Yeah I know but when I consider the alternative for Eric:

1) removing the neck

2) removing the fretboard

3) replacing the truss rod

4) replacing the fret board

5) finish touch up

6) refresh neck angle

7) we always do a fret dress when a neck has been off

He's already invested time in investigating this too.

This repair in our shop with no warranty would be north of $500 - 600 which is why I am wondering how much a new neck might be. The entire guitar is not worth much more than this on the street.

The truss rod should be the Gotoh one-way rod, so a U-channel of aluminum alloy and a single threaded steel rod nestled in the U...with open side of the U to the underside/back of the neck. My limited experience agrees with the Greenridge shop's somewhat broader view: if the rod tensions properly, it is very difficult to achieve a rattle, and even untensioned, the Gotoh one-way rod is a real challenge to get things to move if the steel rod, threading, and nut are all intact and functioning.



Re: Mr. Breakstone's comments about repair shop lack of experience with actual Martin truss rod issues, I say ditto! When I have been told by a customer that he or she suspects a Martin rod - either the Gotoh one-way or the newer captive nut two-way - is rattling, it has always been something else (e.g, those awful trim washers under the lifting peghead bushings on Gotoh open backs; other tuning machine component free to vibrate; preamp mount or battery compartment component with play and free to rattle; loose body bolt with glued tenon holding... for once).

Good luck with this... we'd have pulled the board, filled the larger Gotoh rod channel, remilled for a Martin two-way, board back on, and reshot the neck. $600 is not a bad estimate for the lower end bill on the work at 4.5 hours and materials, but it could get up in the $700 range. A donor guitar with a trashed body may be a cheaper option, but with cost of everything screaming up at late 1970's rates, I suspect it is still a worthwhile repair with respect to the retained value of the instrument.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I am so happy to see appropriate pricing estimates and good call to Woodie on the rattling tuner washers, what were they thinking.

There is a product called Chair Lock out there that is designed to tighten loose rungs on chairs. What it does is swell the wood but it keeps it in place, it's not a glue and it's not simply water either. What I do like about it though is that it is water thin. So if you can drill a small hole to the truss rod you inject it in with a needle and it spreads out over a good distance. I've used it for truss rod rattle and it worked a charm.

My thanks to everyone who responded. This guitar didn't have any sort of pickup, so the buzzes those can cause were ruled out. I did find a loose tuner bushing. Tightening that didn't fix the problem, so I took the tuners off just to be sure. Still rattled. Neck bolt also slightly loose. Snugged that, and it still rattled. At that point, I was tempted to pull off the fingerboard just to figure out what was going on in there. If nobody else has encountered this problem on a Martin, it becomes a more intriguing mystery. Not intriguing enough though. With the help of the diagram that Woody provided, I drilled straight down into the space in the corner of the aluminum channel and injected the silicone sealant. No buzz. So problem solved, and again I thank the committee, but we'll never know exactly what went wrong in Nazareth that day.

Wow! The OLF at it’s best.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Eric you had a rare one in that I spoke with Dave Collins about this yesterday when I was there and he said in his nearly 30 years as a professional Luthier a Martin with a rattling rod is a very rare thing. He can't recall ever seeing one before. Me either.

Someone must have left the back door open on a hot dry day

Glad you got it fixed.

great thread its nice to share the info , you won't find this kind of stuff often but when you do , it can be a head scratcher

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it