Official Luthiers Forum!

I’ve been wanting to build a guitar for quite a while. Have done a lot of research and read a couple of books etc. I would consider myself to be an above average woodworker and have been successful at building fine furniture but in the past.

I am also a guitar player and I’m kinda picky about my guitars as far as quality goes. I was wondering what to expect from a guitar build as far as the quality compared to a factory build. Comparison in playability and tone. I know I can make it look pretty but if it’s not a good player that’s a problem.

Has anyone put in the time and effort only the be disappointed with the end result?

I'm sure many of us have been disappointed, if we're honest.

It may take a few kicks at the can, imagine that. Just reading books for most of us is not enough, it is repetion of action that drives advances.

If you expect a masterpiece your first time out you may be disappointed too, but maybe you're a savant, it certainly happens.

I think most of us here would consider factory quality to be a low baseline not too difficult to achieve. In terms of setup and playability, if the basic geometries are correct, you can find someone to help you with important things like fret leveling and general setup to make it properly playable.

And most of us have been unable to build just one. So if you start, don't be surprised if you find a new obsession...

I think at a minimum, use an accepted plan and do not try to modify it on your first build.

Here’s something to consider:

Assuming you don’t mess it up beyond redemption, a competent repair person can usually make it play well after you build it, even if you can’t. They do that for factory guitars all day long, both old and new.

Making the same assumption, it is probably going to sound like a normal factory-built guitar made from solid woods and built to a plan, which most are. What I mean is that most factory guitars don’t receive special, individual tweaking of the plate thicknesses and the braces in order to get the tone just right for that set of woods; they just get built to a set of design parameters that is one size fits all. If you just build to a plan, your guitar should be no worse off for having been built by someone who lacks the skill to do that sort of tweaking, because most factory guitars don’t get it, either.

Now, as a first time builder, you are definitely going to mess some things up. If you want the guitar to be able to be fixed so you can play it, despite whatever mistakes you make, you might want to build one using a bolt-on neck. That way, a decent repair person can have an easier time of correcting a mistake that affects the neck angle, which is a big playability factor.

My overall point is that, even making some negative assumptions about your ability to build a guitar, it should turn out as something that can be salvaged by a decent repair person. And if you do a good job overall (no negative assumptions), it has a decent chance of meeting or exceeding the quality of the average factory guitar. And if we assume it is merely the first of several guitars you build, you should be able to expect that the subsequent guitars will be better than the first.

So go for it!

I asked the same question before I started. An experienced luthier told me I should view my first guitar as a woodworking project and if it was at all playable that would be a bonus. Keep in mind I was building on my own, not as a student in a luthier's shop. He also told me that I would really hit my stride at about guitar #10. He was right. I tell you this not to dampen your spirits but to help you keep things in perspective. What you might deem a failure is in fact a valuable learning experience (and I have had many). As many people in this profession/hobby have said, there are no shortcuts and there is no substitute for experience. Enjoy the ride though, it is quite rewarding.

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Consider a kit for your first. If you follow the directions you should have a good sounding instrument and hopefully playable.

Even with a kit the hard stuff like voicing, neck angle/alignment and upper bout geometry, fretboard, and fret leveling, bridge placement, setup, and finishing are on you.

If you get hooked then dive in from scratch and even consider a good building course, it’ll shave years off your learning curve.

Good luck!

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

With such wise and well-spoken companions as are found here, how could you help but benefit from the journey contemplated?

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

After rereading your post it is unclear to me whether you want to start building as a hobby or just build one guitar for yourself. If it is the latter, perhaps you might look into a class designed for that purpose. My first choice would be Wayne Henderson.

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Well, there is only one way to find out

I just played, as I do many days a week, the first guitar I ever built last night. I built it in 1992. IT never really looked good and has been to hell and back so it looks even worse today but you know what? It sounds freakin' great.

So it depends on what you mean by 'quality'.? Is this a visual arts project or a musical instrument. Most people buy with their eyes, if that bothers you then you should expect to be disappointing on your first 10 guitars never mind the 1st one. To be honest I've built 60+ instruments and I still have disappointments in fit and finish. Unless you just have some innate natural skill or like you said since you are already a woodworker you might have a good go at it.

Like I said, only one way to find out.

I started out much like you when I went to lutherie school. I had a lot of high-end furniture building experience and had read several books. I had played since high school and had clearly defined ideas about both appearance and tone. The guitar I made in school looked and sounded very good. My instructor told me that my score was among the highest he had ever given. But tonally the guitar did not meet my rather lofty goals. Being a first-time student guitar, there was little chance that it would, but I had high hopes!

I knew I could make a pretty guitar, based on my woodworking experience. Anyone with the right skills and tools can learn to make pretty guitars. The challenge is to make guitars that sound better than factory products regardless of name or cost. As has been stated, this is a rather low bar. But one that requires knowledge and experience to achieve.

Seven years ago I took an elective class at my school that teaches a cutting-edge method of voicing and tuning, with emphasis on top wood selection based on material properties. This resulted in an immediate and quite noticeable change for the better in the tone of my next build, and it has gotten better ever since. Last year I added to my knowledge in this area by taking a master class on modal tuning with Trevor Gore. By combining Mr. Gore's methods with what I was already doing, I have had very happy results.

The bottom line is that you most likely aren't going to achieve your goals on the first guitar. The level of craftsmanship required to turn out a near flawless guitar is beyond furniture making skills, especially if a professional high gloss finish is part of your vision. And understanding what (and what doesn't) contribute to the voice of a guitar takes experience and training. I highly recommend taking a "build a guitar" class for your first effort. Robbie O'Brien has an excellent one. I teach one at my shop, and it includes the basic principles of wood selection along with voicing and tuning the top and back. There are other great teachers who conduct such classes. If this is a one-off project for you, you will probably end up with a much nicer looking and sounding guitar than if you tackle it solo. And if you want to build more, such a class will give you a solid foundation to launch from.

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It will probably be alright.

" I would consider myself to be an above average woodworker and have been successful at building fine furniture but in the past. "

How was your first woodworking project? Was the quality what you had hoped? Were you hesitant to build your fist woodworking project for fear it would not be of good quality? Sounds like you have a lot more woodworking experience than I did when I started building guitars...

If you just want one good guitar, buy it. It will be cheaper and easier. If you want to build them, get started...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I’ve been building a little more than a year. I am currently on build number 6, so I have a little experience.
I did a kit for the first 2 instruments, and believe me when I say there is PLENTY of challenge in a kit build. It is MUCH more than just gluing preshaped parts together.
I’d say this... especially for your first: consider it an investment in learning. There are exceptions but to be honest you’ll PROVABLY be able to go out and buy a guitar that is better than the one you’re going to build. (As I say there have been exceptions).
That said if you want to Go after building then it is a great experience you have to get #1 under your belt before you can get #50 under your belt. It’s a process and a very rewarding one imo:)

Also consider this:
There is building a guitar
There is making it all fit and work together (the math part)
There is then the finish

At least that’s my main 3 right now (although 1 and 2 are starting to become one).

I’d say go for it. Expect a learning curve. Accept the mistakes you’ll make and keep going.
Peace


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I built my first 000 kit twelve years ago. There are some things I would do differently (but not many) - it is still my go to guitar and my daily player. That hasn't stopped me from building 23 more (just strung up a new one last night). Some of the newer ones are not as satisfying as the first one, but I wanted to add something to my quiver.

You will invest 4 or 500 in materials, probably another couple hundred in hardware, case, etc. Depending on your shop you will buy several hundred (maybe many hundreds) dollars worth of tools. You will invest two or three or more months of time in your project. You will make mistakes, lay awake at night, give up a dozen times.

However, playing a guitar that you hand built is probably one of the greater pleasures in life.

My experience has been that initial efforts generally fall into one of 3 camps...
1. A complete and total wreck that plays poorly and looks worse.
2. A guitar that is quite ugly but plays and sounds very good.
3. A beautiful looking guitar shaped obiect that plays and sounds poorly.

Engineers often fall into Camp #2
Experienced Woodworkers often fall into Camp #3

Will there be some disappointment? Probably if you are honest with yourself... And especially so if you use a $4,000 factory guitar as your yardstick...

The honest truth is that it is very difficult to match high quality factory guitars fit/finish AND tone/playability at the same time until you have considerable experince under your belt...

You will never attain the quality you desire.
If you have the spirit, you will never quit trying.

After building some furniture, a few wood surfboards, and three boats, I built my first guitar. I knew I could't afford what I wanted to buy and knew that I had the skills to build a good looking guitar. So I dove in. First was a Les Paul electric from scratch. Turned out very nice. I had a local luthier help me with reshaping the neck and dialing in the setup, but overall a success. The next was an OM. I used the LMI kit builder to customize my kit. Mostly the sides were pre-bent. Everything else was essentially from scratch. But it came with the O'Brien DVD which led through every step. I made a few minor decisions based on reading, but otherwise I lived by O'Brien's advice. The guitar well exceeded my expectations. It has taken another 8 to come close to the character of that first acoustic, yet all of the others were still good instruments. Ones that I would happily put up against most of the production guitars out there. Heck, even the high end Martins, Gibsons, Santa Cruz', etc. out there all have their own character. Some are alive and some are not. I don't get very scientific with my builds in terms of deflecting testing, voicing, etc. If I could afford to take the Gore classes and others, I think I would find it interesting and helpful, but I don't think it's necessary to build a quality instrument. Dive in. With your woodworking background and by following a good set of instructions/plans, you will likely produce a good guitar.

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana

In truth I've liked every guitar I've made, even the first. I suspect meeting or exceeding expectations comes down to how high you set the bar.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Check out the following, lots of good info. In no order of preference just great info.

Robbie Obrien https://obrienguitars.com/courses

Jonathan Kinkaied get this book http://www.kinkadeguitars.co.uk/the-book

Cupiano's book https://www.cumpiano.com/our-guitarmaking-textbook

Find a local Luthier who can advise you with an agreed upon price,

start by reading all the posts on this forum and go for it.

You might also want to start out with something smaller like an Ukulele to get your feet wet.

A kit is a good way to go for either Ukulele or guitar as it takes a few of the steps out of the. way that could be more difficult depending on your skill set/ aptitude.

Join your local Luthiers club. Quite a few ares have them and hold periodic meetings and get togethers.

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https://www.instagram.com/fostinoguitars/
https://www.facebook.com/PuraVidaUkuleles/

I would emphasise Freemans's comment above. That there is an enormous satisfaction in playing a guitar that you have built yourself. And my experience is that even those early ones have come out pretty close in quality to the commercial ones I have played.